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- They should have held the F22 against the F15 Silent Eagle. The latter is vastly improved.
- the f15 has been the proven air superior fighter for decades. but the two aircraft are not even in the same category. thrust vectoring and superior lookdown on the raptor make it a different class of dog fighter
- F15 is proven, F22 isn't. Run any simulation, it doesn't prove shit because it isn't real.
- The F22 may indeed be superior in an air to air engagement against an F15, but it will never be as versatile or as successful as the F15 project proved to be. IMHO.
- Why they won't add 2D or 3D Thrust Vectoring Nozzles to the F 15, like to at least to the F 15 SE Silent Eagle, if those SE don't mean Silent Eagle or It dose!? and maybe they have try, at least 2D, if i saw correctly and remember correctly, that they use same or same kind of Thrust Vectoring Nozzles to the F 15 Strike Eagle or to other F 15 version in the 80' or 90's! i know, i know that the Congress and / or Pentagon made the Desicion / Decision (quite bad English, i know) to only add Thrust Vectoring Nozzles to their F 22! why not 3Ds!? probably because 2Ds are more if not lot more Stealthier design than 3D!

and if they would try same kind of design of 3Ds what they are using in the F 22 Raptor would probably get too expensive to add and even more expensive to maintaine and too heavy, because that what Thrust Vectoring brings to any fighter when added and maybe / probably those Thrust Vectoring Nozzles need to be design for the used engine or the engine designed for / to the 2Ds or 3Ds and what kind of they are! becasue adding more or lot more weight to the Fighter, like they try to the Super Hornet or basic = Legacy Hornet, the Hornet was too much difficulties to reach the Mach 1 = SuperSonic Speed / Speeds, but of course the Manueverability was proven more if not lot more, i don't know how much, but also the weight too, so that Engine Power was too week to the entire weight of Airplane, that maybe F/A 18 probably the Super Hornet but could have been the Legacy Hornet or maybe USA has try to add to both of those Hornets at least 2Ds if not 3Ds too, so that the Hornet would maybe get to the MAX speed just 1000 MPH, but not over it or not much, i don't konw what was the MAX Speed of that Hornet were they try those Thrust Vectoring Nozzles and which one, 2Ds or 3Ds, probably 2Ds!

it would be very interesting to know, how much it has add the weight to / for their SU 27 modern verisons and to their modern MIG 29 version like to their PAK FA T50 and SU 35 and to the MIG 35 etc when they add 3D Thurst Vectoring Nozzles and they might have add 2Ds to their some Fighters, but at least and probably only 3Ds to their modern Jet Fighters and to the older or at least to the newer or new verisons of the MIG 29s, probably those 3Ds, but can't say for sure and maybe they have add to their MIG 29s at all of 3Ds nor 2Ds and if they have add to any MIG 29s Thrust Vectoring Nozzles they have add 3Ds!

if the Russian has add 3Ds like to their SU 35 and to PAK FA T50 etc, why American's = US' People won't add at least 2Ds and 3Ds are possible, if the Russians are using at their Jet Fighters those 3Ds like at least on their SU 30 which might be only 2Ds, but could be 3Ds, but PAK FA T50 and SU 35 and probably the SU 33 Navy Version and probably the MIG 35 is all using the 3D Thrus Vectoring Nozzles, even, even that they have in their all = every SU Fighters that Long and Thick Arrow or something on the back! and the any F 15 doesn't have that on their back, only Back TALES, so why not at least Try those 3Ds or at least 2Ds and put to their every F 15 like to their newest Strike Eagle and to their South Korean and Israel's and Japanese etc and also to their Newest and the Best Version = Variant of F 15 Family called the SE = Silen Eagle, why not!? i would, at least try to add and both of them 2Ds and 3Ds! of course using either 2Ds or 3Ds would add weight, but, but how much and it would probably make those engine less tougher, that those engine might broke = get broken more often if not lot more oftern than when not using any 2Ds or 3Ds and more or the worse, lot more maintenance = add more or lot more time and cost to used to maintaine the engines of any F 15 which don't have any Thrust Vectoring Nozzles and probably adding more weight if not lot more, at least more and therefore, because having more or lot more weight, they would also reducing the MAX Speed and might encrease = add more fuel used per flight! those are the minus things!

but positive things would be to any F 15 were they = Boeing and the Congress would agree, that adding either using 2D or 3Ds more of lot more the manuwerability to any F 15 Variant were those are add, and if adding like 3Ds to the F15 Silent Eagle or to any other Eagle (F15) might be more manuverable than the F 22 and is being the SE = Silent Eagle, the best F15 version so far, the F 15 might be overal better plane that the F 22, not much, but little bit or as good or just little bit worse! i konw that F 22 is the 5th Generation and fully Stealth Fighter and the F 15 SE Silent Eagle almost the 5TH GENERATION, but adding even the 2Ds and even better if 3D Thrust Vectoring Nozzles might make IT as good if not slightly better if not more better than the F 22, that having more or lot more range and more manueverable and having more or lot more MAX Speed than the F 22! what you say = think about this!?
- Why do we need such high tech expensive stealth fighters? We're only fighting apes, artillery would work much better.
- I flew fighters for 20 years in the AF. A close friend of mine, an F-15C driver with two Mig kills in the first Gulf War flew with t;he test squadron at Eglins AFB against the F-22's when they were still using prototype software. The F-15's had the latest software and highly qualified pilots aboard. They flew 4 v 1 and 8 v 1 rations against the F-22's. He told me that not only did they not get a single kill (simulated), btut that the F-15's were all killed on every single mission. He said that he only saw a 22 once and that was in the contrails. He told me that he thought he got a glimpse on radar of an F-22 and suspects it was the ordnance doors opening and closing. He said that by that time he was dead anyway. He said that the F-15 or any other prior generation fighter had absolutely not chance against the F-22. Norman Turner, Lt. Col. USAF Ret
- Thing is, the F-22 was built to replace the F-15 and as such it is a more maneuverable version of it. That said, from anything I've read the F-15's with their AESA upgrades provide a solid contest to the F-22.

The more important question is how either would do in a dogfight with an SU-35 or PAK-FA?
- Now were these f-15E with apg-82?
- F-22 is good and all but it was used in a few mission and airstrikes on Isis and just one mission for one aircraft cost literally 70,000,000
- I seriously think current F15E would win hands down because of favourable exchange ratio: for each raptor taking off 10 eagles would wait in the sky for tearing it down.
- I have no doubt that the F15 is a great fighter, i has never lost a fighter due to air to air combat to date, but going up against a F22, this would be a very short battle with the F15 losing badly. Difference is, the F15 would be shot down before it even knew someone was there firing on it.
- what about Su35?
- Rename to: "Some planes take off"
- F-22s are so fteaking LOUD!
- I love that

- The Sopwith Camel could eat both these planes lunch and leave without paying the bill .
- the f16 no the ader hand with his afterbirns is as fast as light
- The raptor is stelth and with ou the aferbirns it is as fast as the speed of light
- The F16 woud fall in a mater of sekonds